Time for an honest debate
It is time Israel and America learnt that if a country has confidence in itself, in the justice of its objectives, talking with people involves no risk. It does not mean that you agree to something contrary to your principles or to your own fundamental security but it is an essential tool in the search for peace. Failure to talk represents lack of confidence, lack of conviction and a weakness that can have tragic consequences. I know there are members of the Jewish community in Australia who do not agree with the views vehemently expressed by the Lobby but they are deterred, by one means of another from entering the debate. It would be an important advance if they were able to find a voice and debate these issues. They are too important to allow the usual spokesman free rein.
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I think that it is way behind time for the ‘Middle East’ conflict to end. The participants are behaving like children doing damage to each other as many teenagers do today. They pretend to think of peace and ‘THEIR’ rights. No, this is not the way. For example, the building of another ‘Berlin Wall’ will not resolve the problem. I have been reading the work of Lewis O’Brien, an Original Australian, who speaks of the way power does not resolve problems in any way at all.
“Remember, we Aboriginal people owned the all land in the begining, then they took it off us, then they gave it back, and took it away again.” [And the clock struck thirteen”]. If the powers that might be could take a note of the Original Australians and work together as ‘Elders’ rather than as imperialists or colonialists they might gain some real peace. I back Malcom, who has now become an elder and a realist. Shooting each other will NOT solve the problem, sharing will.
Mr.Fraser’s comments were fair, reasonable and above all honest. It is about time more people of influence raised their concerns in the same way. Mr. Leiber’s response was typical of the prevailing attitude when some form of criticism is perceived by Israelis and their supporters. President Reagan called on the Soviets to tear down The Wall in Berlin. I have heard no such comment from President Bush in regards to the monstrous wall built in Israel. Perhaps Mr Leiber should realize more and more people now believe that Israel is no longer the victim and the often expressed right of self defence is perceived as an excuse for the use of military force and other unreasonable acts.
Malcolm Fraser is right. The Jewish diaspora is much less receptive to alternative views than are Jews in Israel itself. Antony Loewenstein has the courage to speak out in Australia against Israeli oppression but he is routinely derided by fellow Australian Jews.
Mark Leibler’s recent article carefully skirts around the problem of West Bank settlements by focusing on “new” settlements. Why was Israel entitled to steal West Bank land over the past 40 years? The real answer appears to be “because they could”. Until removal of settlements is accepted by Israel as part of a peace deal, there will never be peace between Palestinians and Israelis.
A new book give strong support to Malcolm Fraser’s approach. Jeroen
Gunning’s book, ‘Hamas in Politics: Democracy, Religion, Violence’ (Hurst,
2007 and Columbia University Press, 2008) makes clear that Hamas has to be
responsive to Palestinian public opinion, and has several times been ready
to negotiate on matters which contradict their stated manifesto. Gunning is
also co-editor of the journal ‘Critical Studies on Terrorism’. His article,
‘Hamas: Talk to Them’, can be found at
http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/conflicts/middle_east/hamas_talk_to_them
John Bond
as a black british, i am shocked to see that racism is still rife in australia. i know racism in still going on all around the world, but for little change occuring in aussie towards the aboriginal and other minority groups is sad. a well known actor who visited aussie recently even commented on how sad and shocked he was. its a shame as australia is a beautiful country, but this honestly puts people off visiting. its even evident in the tv shows that portray little if not no aboriginals in any way, let alone a positive way. its a shame as it gives australians a bad name when not all australians are in support of racism. it seems people have not learnt from south africa’s plight and other’s around the world. its time people in power and famous aussies use thier fame to push for change. speaking as a black british i hope australians will wake up and smell the cofee instead of burying thier head in the sand and being in deniel. it is everyones business to promote equal human rigts
I wonder if the pro-Isreali settlements lobby would apply the same justifications in Australia? Which would mean they must support Indigenous Australians’ right to kick out non-indigenous people without any regard for how many years we have been living here.
If you apply the prinicple in one area, you must apply it globally to indigenous peoples who have been dispossessed of their land - be it lawful or unlawful.
Malcolm is correct. Honest debate, without pre-conditions, is the only way in which a fair and just solution is possible. Mr Leibler’s, by now, predictable rant does nothing to help solve an ongoing crisis. When a party approaches a problem “knowing” that its stance is “right” and being unable to concede that the other may have a credible point of view, as do the U.S. Administration and the Israeli government, what chance a solution? Israel certainly has a right to exist. So does a Palestinian State. Mr Bush and Condelezia Rice could start by expunging the word “must” from their negotiating vocabulary and instigate a dialogue between Israel and both Palestinian factions, with its only pre-condition being goodwill.
Israel’s journey toward militant extremism has been a painful process to observe. The country that produced one of the great humanist thinkers, Martin Buber, is being hijacked by fanatical nationalists who deny Palestinians the same rights they take for granted. The ongoing settlement process and the infernal wall that hoodwinks Israelis into believing they are shielded from the consequences of their treatment of Palestinians are the clearest symbols of just how far Israel has drifted from its moral moorings. Wake up Israel before the drift is irretrievable!
“I know there are members of the Jewish community in Australia who do not agree with the views vehemently expressed by the Lobby but they are deterred, by one means of another from entering the debate”.
The hell they are. No Jew can shut up any other Jew in the community. Debate is open and constant, at meetings and at home. There is a lot of disagreement, and unfortunately the Loewenstein type of commenter says he has been “silenced” simply becasue he has been disagreed with or contradicted.
there seems to be a type of person around who thinks that their assertions or opinions should go unchallenged. In any society with healthy debate that does not happen.
If you can’t take disagreement, you don’t belong in a debate. there are more ways than one to make one’s views known and many people are exploring these. Fraser is showing how unaware he is of current issues in discussion and politics as well as his almost painful irrelevance to the Israeli-Arab conflict.
To Kate Gauthier
I agree with you. We Australians have committed the same crimes as the Jews commit today in Palestine.
The Jews cannot be expelled now, there are too many of them who were born there and consider it to be their home. Just as we Australians can’t be expected to leave these shores over 200 years after occupation.
There has to be a compromise, as distasteful as it would be to both sides. Each side will need to give something up.
An end to U.S. sponsored Israeli brutality and hypocrisy would be a great start, and would most likely lead to an end to Palestinian acts of revenge.
Then they could start talking.